Curse

Jennie · Sep 02, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Energy storage ans Soul Reaping are just more useful. take that picture above for example, is that GoLE i spy? the character would be more effective as an ele primary. more energy reserves are always useful.

That can be countered with br as I mentioned before. Just take a neco on the team, which I do mostly anyway and no energy problems at all. So, with the energy out of the way all that is left is the advantage of FC which the other profs dont have. The only thing going for eles and necros are the energy. I would norm take a necro with me anyway so I dont consider it much of a problem to stick br on them and take a mesmer for the damage. Or, for that matter change my secondary to n and take br.. either way, getting energy is not a problem.

Earth · Sep 02, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Energy storage ans Soul Reaping are just more useful. take that picture above for example, is that GoLE i spy? the character would be more effective as an ele primary. more energy reserves are always useful.

So what you're saying is, every build or character that uses GoLE should be an ele primary? I'm guessing all the monks with Aegis + GoLE should be ele primaries then, because more energy reserves are always useful. Your logic makes no sense.

Cebe · Sep 02, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Why did Anet make the Gwen hero a mesmer? I wanted to use her, not have her gather dust.

Lol....

Your statement is so stereotypical of most players with the profession combination Warrior/Monk. I feel sorry for you.

My Gwen will be getting use, though I feel a loyalty to Norgu, as he has been with me longer.

Age · Sep 02, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

So what you're saying is, every build or character that uses GoLE should be an ele primary? I'm guessing all the monks with Aegis + GoLE should be ele primaries then, because more energy reserves are always useful. Your logic makes no sense.

It wasn't just Monks that were chaining it it was Eles and Necros.

Back on topic Gwens mother wanted her to become a Monk but Gwen really wanted to become a Mesmer.Wait till she finds out.

Coloneh · Sep 02, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

So what you're saying is, every build or character that uses GoLE should be an ele primary? I'm guessing all the monks with Aegis + GoLE should be ele primaries then, because more energy reserves are always useful. Your logic makes no sense.

no, my point was that if a character isnt utilizing their primary profession then they might as well be a primary that provides an advantage.

A11Eur0 · Sep 02, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

So glad I got EOTN before nightfall...now I won't have to bother with that fat sombrero-eating Norgu.

My Gwen was pwning...and before I got EOTN, every hench group I took had the mesmer hench in it. Now to figure out if heroes attack just my target or can cycle between targets with priority on their own.

gasmaskman · Sep 02, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

no, my point was that if a character isnt utilizing their primary profession then they might as well be a primary that provides an advantage.

One seems to be forgetting runes and how +2-4 (even one) can really make a difference. And why would you go E/Me and using GOLE when there aren't even any 15 energy skills on the mesmers bar?

Croco Clouds · Sep 02, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Luckily Livia is a necro, MM ftw lol

yesitsrob · Sep 02, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Sorry to be blunt here but mesmers simply don't do key jobs in PVE as well as other characters do.

Caster Mobs - BHA Epidemic ranger provide much better shutdown - with the AI not amazing at removing conditions you can convincingly shut down any caster and be able to interrupt much more frequently than with a mesmer, you'll also be able to catch the shorter casts much more convincingly, even though it is by luck, with many targets smashing away and the only condition to be to hit them, it will happen quite frequently. Also worth noting that there isn't a great deal of solid condition removal on enemy mobs, with the only RC being in some corner of abaddon's mouth. sometimes.

Melee Mobs - It's all about the Curse Necros really. Enfeebling Blood being the main skill, Reckless and Spitefull make great additions as it also gives them respectable damage that the enemy AI will happily kill themselves with. Clumsiness is a good skill but really doesn'y quite do the job as well against the larger mobs. Ineptitude is just bad. Spirit of Failure is nice, and generally when you want a mesmer to shut down melee mobs they would be better off going as a FC Curses.

Damage - Their damage output isn't great really, sure some caster mobs might kill themselves on that ridiculously long recharign backfire, and maybe you can spam wastrel's on a boss because it ends faster - But your DPS will never compare to that of a Warrior or a Paragon.

Support - Again, they just can't quite support your party like say a Paragon.

They are generally not misunderstood in PVE. Misunderstanding them would be to say they are a good PVE class. Sure they can do some things.. at some times.... yeah someone can go and bring up the shitty.. "my mesmer can solo a monk boss" argument. In general though they just aren't that great at PVE, yes go ahead and tell me how bad I am at GW now and how I don't understand the rolls of a mesmer, k.

As far as holy trinities goes.. tbh. In human partoes, the only 3 classes that remain consistent in my groups are Paragons, Necromancers and Monks, and generally I like the others to be Warriors, ocassionally a Ranger.

Avarre · Sep 03, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

They are generally not misunderstood in PVE. Misunderstanding them would be to say they are a good PVE class.

This needs to be read.

haggus71 · Sep 03, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Jesus, but I'm gonna eat shit for saying this....

As far as PvE goes, yesitsrob and coloneh are right. When Prophecies was out, they were great. Even going through Factions they can hold their own. Once you hit Nightfall, however, it's all downhill. Yeah, argue about the great Cry of Pain and E-Surge, or all the caster interrupts. You hit 3 or more casters at lvl22+ and you....are....screwed without a decent backup of guildies or heroes. The battle lasts too long and you worry too much about your e-regen and skill recharge. Yes, a mesmer can make a difference in the battle, but not in the way a ranger or paragon can. Hell, a simple Moebius/Death Blossom sin build and I waltz through EotN and pwn that fat f'er Bison's ass. A good ranger can interrupt spike a caster with S-shot/D-Shot and BHA and he is DONE. On his own. Next target, please.

I do think the Mesmer is a fun character to play, and can be a useful part of a team. However, fast casting is too weak a primary, and until the game or the class is changed, the mesmer will remain in the situation it's in, getting grief from everyone and their mom.

Don't bitch at them for pointing out the faults. Bitch at Anet for making mesmer the one class that no one wants to play with. The sad thing is, Mesmer bosses/monsters show what the mesmer was supposed to be, with their faster cast and energy up the wazoo. We should say,"GG Anet. You show love for the mesmer by creating all these great mesmer monsters, yet do nothing for the actual player".

You gotta wonder if the guy who created the mesmer left the company, from the hate it gets.

So yeah, stick to owning PvP, because in PvE there are just too many better choices, thanks to the way Anet has set it up.

Patrick Smit · Sep 03, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

went in with 4 mesmers (Gwen, Norgu, hench, and I), a necro (Olias), earth hench (hertha) and the two monk hench. Gwen was quite a slaughterfest after adding some sigs of disenchant against annoying spells like obs flesh and spellbreaker. Sometimes Gwen showed a bit too courageuous, but after all the penetration of domination combined with some inspiration is very nice.

I gave Gwen a req9 butterfly mirror too

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

.....E-Denial was great, and its been nerfed very heavily, and that doesnt work as well in PVE anyway.....

I'm not sure whether this is a valid claim, you can still do the damage using burn, surge, and mindwrack sets off, that was actually the base of the build. with three dom mesmers there is little energy they spend and spend it gets interrupted with leak or drain resulting in a failed spell and possibly extra damage due mind wrack. It probably could be better, but okay they wanted to prevent abuse at anet I guess

Matfei · Sep 03, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Lol....

Your statement is so stereotypical of most players with the profession combination Warrior/Monk. I feel sorry for you.with me longer.

That's a bit subjective. I still use a W/Mo successfully in PvE, yet I dont make qualms about such trivial things as 'Ugh, why have so many heroes when we can only use 3' and such.

In rebuttal, you're statement is highly stereotypical of elitist players who think anyone who favours W/Mo is a hopeless noob.

Stormlord Alex · Sep 03, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Sorry to be blunt here but mesmers simply don't do key jobs in PVE as well as other characters do.

Alas... Quoted for the ultimate truth.
Even Avarre agrees, and he's... like... a pro mesmer

Etta · Sep 03, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matfei

In rebuttal, you're statement is highly stereotypical of elitist players who think anyone who favours W/Mo is a hopeless noob.

Well, when it's right 80% of the time, also there're a lot different between Warrior/Monk and Wammo.

As for the mesmer, why do some people prefer Ak 47 to M4, X-wing to Tie-fighter or Ryu to Ken? It's in their playing style, you want to do the no-nonsense direct damge, go ahead and use the standard professions. No right or wrong there, as long as you get the job done, right?

Some people don't want to do that, they rather be more creative. Nothing wrong there as well. So use what you want to use, play it how you want to and stop nagging those who like to play as or use mesmer.

upier · Sep 03, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

One seems to be forgetting runes and how +2-4 (even one) can really make a difference. And why would you go E/Me and using GOLE when there aren't even any 15 energy skills on the mesmers bar?

Attribute boosting runes are pretty much outdated. The is basically no other reason besides Surge, Burn, Blackout and Signet Of Weariness (yeah, like that's gonna work in PvE) to bring any mesmer attribute over 12.
The rest of the skills work insanely well with only 12 in the selected attribute OR even less! That is why the mesmer secondary works so nicely!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Even Avarre agrees, and he's... like... a pro mesmer

No disrespect - but I need to strongly disagree with such statements.
Don't agree or disagree with something just because a player X says it's like that. Look at the reasoning behind it to see what made that player form such an opinion.
Learn to understand the game you are playing - instead of just following the crowd.

Stormlord Alex · Sep 03, 2007, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

No disrespect - but I need to strongly disagree with such statements.
Don't agree or disagree with something just because a player X says it's like that. Look at the reasoning behind it to see what made that player form such an opinion.
Learn to understand the game you are playing - instead of just following the crowd.

Oh, but I do understand. I understand very well the limits of the mesmer in PvE... And I agree with crumpets on his points.
The fact that other people - people such as Avarre whom we all know as being totally kick-ass - also feel the same adds weight to the argument.
I just threw on a QFT 'cuz nothing else needed to be said.

But, of course, the angry crowd will devour me 'cuz I 'suk and dunt understand mezmars lolol'

Avarre · Sep 03, 2007, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Look at the reasoning behind it to see what made that player form such an opinion.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10129170

upier · Sep 03, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10129170

Yes - I am aware of that. Hell I even wrote a few shorter pieces on the same subject over at GWO.
And yes - I actually share your opinion.
BUT it actually took me a lot of time playing the mesmer to figure it out and it took me a bit longer to actually accept it.
And that is why I can stand behind my view instead of just waiting for somebody else to tell me what to think - which actually seems to be what the majority of people on this thread are doing.
And that is why this marathon sessions keep going on and on - because so many players feel that liking or disliking something is completely enough to justify forming an opinion if something works or doesn't.

Diablo™ · Sep 03, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

They needed a hero for every class, if Gwen wasn't going to be a mesmer, someone else would.

But if we already know that, then this thread isn't really about the mesmers status in PVE, and more about someone's obsession over Gwen is it?